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Old Ranger
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Posted: June 19 2018 at 4:55pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

I like hand grenades.

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turbo1889
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Posted: June 19 2018 at 7:39pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Old Ranger wrote:
I like hand grenades.


Slight issue with using those for point
blank or close quarters self defense use.
With some humans attackers might be useful
in threatening to pull the pin and "at
least I know I'll take you with me"
however would not work on all human
attackers and would not work on any dog
attacker unless the dog was a veteran who
knew what a grenade was from first hand
experience.

As to S&W Shield well me and S&W don't get
along except for me buying their older
used wheel guns due to an issue with one
of their 9x19 autos over a decade and a
half ago where the darn thing would jamb
up failure to feed almost every time on
every kind of ammo tried. Was purchased
new so I tried to get customer service
from S&W and they told me to "stop limp
wristing it". So I clamped a big vise I
have that is mounted on top of a 55-gal
drum filled with concrete protecting the
guns grips with some old carpet to protect
the rubbery-plastic grip panels. I then
took an old full size VHS camera I had
picked up for cheap (before the age of
cell phone cameras for the masses) and
filmed myself firing the gun securely
clamped into the vise mounted atop the 55-
gal drum filled up with concrete and it
jamming up still with all different kinds
of ammo all the time me making my
annoyance with their product and their
customer service reps accusation that it
was my fault for limp wristing the gun. I
then mailed them said VHS taping. Their
response was that they were insulted by my
ranting video (mild compared to what shows
up today on youtube, no cussing even).
Anyway things deteriorated from there and
S&W probably still isn't all that
interested in having me as a customer or
me interested in any of their new auto
pistols.

That said, if they actually made a truely
good ultra-compact 45-ACP that was as good
or better then the XDS-45 and could be
decocked and would fire on a good smooth
double action trigger like a quality
double action revolver exemplifies either
for just the first shot or all shots I
would consider giving them a second
chance, but I would need to put some
trigger time in myself on a loner before I
would buy.

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What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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Old Ranger
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Posted: June 19 2018 at 8:05pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

RPG is nice too.

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turbo1889
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Posted: June 20 2018 at 3:52am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

RPG is cheaper but I would prefer a LAZ
far superior to the Russian RPG.

That is if I got in a situation where that
kind of weapon was appropriate and I could
get my hands on that kind of hardware.

I would note especially that the LAZ uses
a forward streaming shaped charge hollow
core plasma stream penetrator warhead.
Which if you have to fire it in close
quarters much less of a risk to the
operator compared to the basic impact
detonated simple high yield charge of an
RPG.

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What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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Old Ranger
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Posted: June 20 2018 at 4:59am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

And if I really wanna get rough....
A Daisy Red Ryder BB Gun.
I'll put their eye out!

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: June 20 2018 at 5:17am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Walther makes their PPQ in a DA/SA striker fired .45 with a decocker.And probably has a trigger just as smooth as any DA revolver.

I do not believe it comes in a compact model.

The S&W autos have come a long way in the last few years.
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turbo1889
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Posted: June 20 2018 at 8:36am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Old Ranger wrote:
And if I really wanna
get rough....
A Daisy Red Ryder BB Gun.
I'll put their eye out!


If it's what's available and you can make
the shot, see no reason why not if
shooting is justified. Plus it would
probably get you in the record books; I
can just see it now:

In the year of 2018 an elderly
former Ranger (is it Texas, Army, or
Forest that goes in front of that?) who
was part Native American successfully
defended himself with only a Red Rider BB
gun by shooting out both of his attacker's
eyes in rapid succession. The shooting
was ruled fully justified and the Judge in
the case is on record as admonishing his
attacker from the bench, "You messed with
the wrong man, son. And now you will be
blind for the rest of your life, just be
glad your not dead and only lost your
sight." This is believed to be the only
confirmed account on record of a lawful
defense shooting where the defender
deliberately shot out both of his
attacker's eyes with just a Red Rider BB
gun.


__________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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Old Ranger
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Posted: June 20 2018 at 9:19am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger



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Dave T
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Posted: June 20 2018 at 2:30pm | IP Logged Quote Dave T

John Van Gelder wrote:
Walther makes their PPQ in a DA/SA striker
fired .45 with a decocker.


After my LEO career and ten years running my own firearms training
business, I have no use for DA/SA semi autos. Despite reading great claims
of how well people can handle the DA first shot, then the transition to the
SA second shot, under pressure of realistic, self-defense times limits I have
never seen anyone deliver on their claimed ability at this.

1911 style SA, or DAO is all I recommended to my students and I stand by
that yet today.

Dave

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: June 21 2018 at 6:26am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Many if not the majority of police departments, and armed forces in Europe/ the near East carry either the CZ 75, or a copy there of, and get on just fine with the DA/SA design.

Having spent my entire law enforcement career carrying a DA revolver, the DA/SA auto works well for me.

However here the reasoning is slightly different.
the largest police department in the US, the NYPD has three options for their officers The Glock 19, the S&W 5946 and the Sig Sauer P226 DAO. They all have double-action-only (DAO) triggers and inherent safety features.

Chicago the second largest PD issues Glock 17s and 19s.

LAPD Beretta 92, Glock 22

Philadelphia PD Glock 19 or 23

Houston S&W M&P40; the Glock 22, G22C, G23 or G23C; the Springfield Armory XD-40; or the Sig Sauer P226 or P229, in either DA/SA or DAK

Detroit S&W M&P .40

Washington, D.C Glock 17.19

Nassau County Sig Sauer P226s in 9mm.

Baltimore Glock 22

Metro-Dade PD, recently switched to 9mm Glock pistols.

The list is current as of the date of the article.

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RT58
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Posted: June 21 2018 at 7:21pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

After being convinced they needed auto pistols, and finding the average police officer couldn't be trained on them as easy as the revolver, PD's were eager to find pistols that were more "idiot proof". Happy hunting as the idiots are getting more idiotic. I started encountering more and more officers that had never fired a weapon of any kind and the type of training the were getting in the basic academy did more to confuse them then help.

When I started requalifying the minimum requalification course was the easiest I'd ever seen, but officers couldn't pass it without firing it three or four times, even some older ones that had shot revolvers before had trouble. I couldn't believe how hard it was for them so I took my 13 year old son to the range one day to keep time. After the officers had all finished and left, I ran him through the exact same course they just shot. He had never shot an auto pistol before and had only shot ten rounds he had loaded through a revolver a year earlier. After about thirty seconds of instruction he passed it on the first try.
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: June 22 2018 at 5:15am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

There is no substitute for teaching young people to shoot.

My youngest started shooting at age four, he had a Crosman pneumatic pistol. I have a video of him at age 13 walking a can around a gravel pit with his 1858 Remington, point shooting.

A couple of years later we were in Montana visiting an old Alaska friend of mine, he was an avid bowling pin shooter. My son wanted to give it a try, he cleared the table with my 3" GP100. My friend had a 10mm he was quite fond of, he want to see if my boy could shoot that, he cleared the table again with a gun he had never fired before.

On caveat here is the my son has had his own 1911 since age ten, he can disassemble the gun right down to where there are no two parts touching.

I spent several years as an instructor when I was in the service and again as a policeman.

The troopers who had a real interest in firearms and hunting always did the best.

Over the years as and instructor what became obvious was that you cannot teach anyone much of anything, the best you can do is show the fundamentals, it is up to the individual to prefect a skill, and that requires motivation.

And nothing is idiot proof. There are those people you can lock in a padded room with a steel bowling ball, they will either break or loose the ball..

RT58

Idiocy is not limited to firearms handling, just watch folks drive for a little while.

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RT58
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Posted: June 22 2018 at 9:37am | IP Logged Quote RT58

John, You don't even want to get me started on how people drive. Or act in public, or run their mouths off about stuff they know nothing about or...

I think what got to me the most about the police officers that couldn't shoot, was the fact that they didn't care about it either. The department would give them targets and ammunition and I told them I would give them any help they needed to learn how to shoot better, but never had any takers. Once after we qualified I told them shooting once a year isn't enough and they needed to practice more. The Sergeant told me they weren't gun guys and their firearms were just another tool to them, just like a pen or pencil. I told him since he used his pen everyday, when someone tries to kill him he should pull it out instead of his pistol, he had a better chance of winning with it. Then I told him that if he can't spare the time to practice for his own benefit, he should do it for his wife and daughters. It did no good and later he was involved in a shooting, with about ten other officers. Fortunately one of them could shoot, or got lucky.
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