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REM1875
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Posted: June 25 2018 at 10:26pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Ok I fell victim to another 10mm Ruger (first one was a
Buckeye 38-40/10mm).
It's the first RedHawk I have ever owned.
I want to try out 40 S&W in the moon clips
I tried it with 10 mm 180 gr and those things are pussy
cats out of this thing .....and right on for me .....
Kinda wish I waited for the GP100 though.
This super Redhawk is a hoss pistol......ya need a hoss to
carry it ....

Edited by REM1875 on June 25 2018 at 10:26pm
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LAH
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Posted: June 26 2018 at 7:50pm | IP Logged Quote LAH

They are a horse gun for sure.

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Old Ranger
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Posted: June 29 2018 at 3:16pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Know of a 1998 Colt Model P 4 3/4" unfired and the hammer
has never been pulled back in .38-40 just dying to land
in your lap for $1800!
You know you want it. Haaaa!

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REM1875
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Posted: June 29 2018 at 10:26pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Old Ranger wrote:
Know of a 1998 Colt Model P 4 3/4"
unfired and the hammer
has never been pulled back in .38-40 just dying to land
in your lap for $1800!
You know you want it. Haaaa!


Damn you got me pegged but I ain't got it
I need another shooter though ...not a collector !!!
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KinleyWater
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Posted: July 08 2018 at 6:22am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Sorry, gents, I am not sold on the 10mm for a revolver. I own a 1911 in 10mm and enjoy it quite a bit. I also use it as a carry gun.

Thing is, in a revolver format (and now I'm being a curmudgeon) I don't see any advantage over a 357. I suppose if you just want a revolver in 10mm, that is reason enough. Still, I don't see a practical advantage.

On the other hand, I have often fantasized about a 10mm diameter rimmed cartridge with more case capacity than the 10mm auto. That would be grand in a revolver and would be able to shoot the 10mm and .40S&W. So, when someone decided to make something like that, I'll look into it (who knows, maybe someone already has). Until then, I would have to hold on it.

That said, if you like it - good for you! Guns are like books, the more you have the better.

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RT58
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Posted: July 08 2018 at 8:41am | IP Logged Quote RT58

Kinley, you are talking about the Herters .401 Powermag. It wasn't designed to shoot rimless .40's or 10's because they didn't exist then.

The cartridge had a lot of potential but it didn't say "Colt" or "S&W" on the headstamp and so it died a slow and painful death.
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KinleyWater
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Posted: July 08 2018 at 8:57am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

RT58 wrote:
Kinley, you are talking about the Herters .401 Powermag. It wasn't designed to shoot rimless .40's or 10's because they didn't exist then.

The cartridge had a lot of potential but it didn't say "Colt" or "S&W" on the headstamp and so it died a slow and painful death.


Very cool! Thank you. I shall have to do further research.

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Old Ranger
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Posted: July 08 2018 at 9:59am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

look up a gunsmith by the name of Gordon Boser.
He developed a 41mag before everyone, but no one listened
much since his name wasn't Keith and Gordon didn't blow
up a lot of guns. He was a REAL gunsmith!

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turbo1889
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Posted: July 08 2018 at 12:23pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Main reason for a 10mm revolver is because
"regular gun stores" have very few if any
options on the shelf for 41-mag ammo but
do have options for 10mm and even more
options for 40-S&W which can often be
fired in the 10mm revolvers.

Both the 41-mag. and 10mm are in the
Midway point between the 357-mag. and the
44-mag. So if one wants something with a
little more punch then the 357-mag but the
44-mag is too much then a 10mm revolver
actually makes more sense then a 41-mag
revolver if ammunition availablity is a
concern especially if you want to shoot
lighter loads for practice like shooting
38s in a 357, with 41-mag there is no
light option without handloading. With
10mm you have the 40-S&W loads to drop
down too.

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RT58
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Posted: July 08 2018 at 2:17pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

Wade, I'd heard of Gordon Boser's cartridge, although very little, do you know if there were any production guns made for it or was it all custom order?

Turbo, Back when revolvers weren't a dirty word there were other options. Remington made a light .44 mag. load and both Remington and Winchester made a nice reduced load for the .41 magnum. The Winchester .41mag. Silvertip load is not full power and has ballistics very similar to their 10mm Silvertip load.

S&W has tried to kill off the .41mag, but it has a loyal following. I think they only introduced it to turn people away from the concept to keep Colt from adopting a larger caliber.

With any revolver, handloading is a big plus. Ammo manufacturers base production off of demand and demand has varied even when they were popular. You have a much larger selection of lead bullets if you cast your own and you aren't restricted to magnum-special-base BP cartridge as you can load anywhere in between, and even lower. And this includes the .41 magnum. Not to mention the specialty loads that have been made over the last 100 years that won't fit or operate in an automatic.
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REM1875
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Posted: July 08 2018 at 7:20pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

The 41 Spl (Starline brass) is a terrific round with those
170 gr- 215 gr bullets......hits hard without the
recoil....
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richhodg66
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Posted: July 08 2018 at 7:36pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

When I was at Fort Bliss, a buddy and I got into shooting auto pistols a lot and he was a fan of the 10mm. I got him into loading and eventually casting. We were in a gun store when there sat a NOS Lyman mold for the .38-40, standard round flat nose cowboy design. STill had what looked like the 1960s price on it so he bought it. That bullet worked darn well in the 10mm and was accurate. So the .38-40 is basically what Kinley is wanting and it's been around a while.

I have a 10mm now, AMT Javelina. Mostly been shooting my Dad's handloads in it, but I like the gun and caliber and plan to shoot it a lot in the future.

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REM1875
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Posted: July 08 2018 at 7:47pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Story is the 10 mm was created when an old 38-40 bullet
was stuffed int a cut down 30 Remington (the old one)
The 40 S&W and 10 Mag were based off that....

Edited by REM1875 on July 08 2018 at 7:47pm
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richhodg66
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Posted: July 08 2018 at 8:01pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

I have heard that and seem to remember it was Jeff Cooper who envisioned it and started cartridge development.

I'm a firm believer that for everything except big game hunting, the .357 is hands down the best handgun cartridge ever developed, but the 10mm is a neat one.

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REM1875
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Posted: July 08 2018 at 8:22pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

9mm plus P - 38,500
357 -35,000 psi
41 mag -36,000
44 mag -36,000 psi

10 mm - 37,500 psi

Nothing to sneeze at .....put er right in with the magnums
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Old Ranger
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Posted: July 09 2018 at 5:12am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

RT58 wrote:
Wade, I'd heard of Gordon Boser's
cartridge, although very little, do you know if there
were any production guns made for it or was it all custom
order?


Herters sold a single action army revolver imported by
Sauar [spelling?] and the ammo up until the GCA of '68
that killed the mail order business and Herters with it.
There are some still around but they demand a hefty sum
to buy now.

Boser worked with the SAA framed revolver, but unlike
Keith, Boser was a genuine trained and skilled gunsmith
and not a flamboyant backwoods character with zero
training who blew up weapons. Gordon Boser worked out of
New York and was an early member of the 44
Association/Society, Can't remember. They published a
memograph [sp?] News letter to members only by mail about
every quarter.

He designed a SWC with enormous meplat having almost
straight nose with almost no taper. I have a DC Lyman
mould from the 60's [429360] for the .44Spl/Mag. Casts a
232gr bullet of remarkable accuracy and killing power.
Hits like a panzer doing 80 mph with the accuracy of a
laser. He designed another like it in .41cal and .358cal.
Both are quite rare now. I've been searching for the 38
version for 50 years with no luck.

Yup, Gordon Boser was the real deal and not a hack in a
hat. He knew what he was doing but wasn't into self
promotion thus little is ever said of him. Sad as he was
talented.

Edited by Old Ranger on July 09 2018 at 7:28am


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REM1875
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Posted: July 09 2018 at 5:54am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

The HERTERS .401 POWER MAG..... haven't seen one in ages

Everything ya wanted to know about it

http://www.gunblast.com/Fryxell_Herters401.htm
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RT58
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Posted: July 09 2018 at 9:17am | IP Logged Quote RT58

richhodg66 wrote:
...So the .38-40 is basically what Kinley is wanting and it's been around a while.


I thought he wanted a revolver that fired a rimmed cartridge and could also fire 10mm and .40S&W cartridges with a moon clip. The .38-40 is a bottlenecked cartridge.


Higher pressures are the indicator for "magnum" cartridges, but that doesn't always make them better. If you want a +V instead of a +P enlarge the case and add more powder. Maximum chamber pressures and velocity don't have the relationship many seem to think. If you want to run your own test, load a .44 magnum up to maximum pressures with Bullseye and H110 and compare their muzzle velocities.
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KinleyWater
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Posted: July 09 2018 at 12:27pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

RT58 wrote:
richhodg66 wrote:
...So the .38-40 is basically what Kinley is wanting and it's been around a while.


I thought he wanted a revolver that fired a rimmed cartridge and could also fire 10mm and .40S&W cartridges with a moon clip. The .38-40 is a bottlenecked cartridge.


Higher pressures are the indicator for "magnum" cartridges, but that doesn't always make them better. If you want a +V instead of a +P enlarge the case and add more powder. Maximum chamber pressures and velocity don't have the relationship many seem to think. If you want to run your own test, load a .44 magnum up to maximum pressures with Bullseye and H110 and compare their muzzle velocities.


RT,

You hit it on the head. I was thinking along the lines of a revolver capable of shooting both the rimmed round and the 10mm with moon clips or the like. 1 revolver, 3 cartridges - the xxx rimmed, the 10mm auto, and the 40 S&W. I would like to think that there would be something of a market for that sort of gun, in say a 3 or 4 inch barrel. Sort of a 1 and done for all manner of uses from field to nightstand.

Still, what I think would be a good idea does not automatically equate to retail success,and a fair amount of money would need to be sunk into R&D for both the cartridge and the platform. That said, I might see if I could get a custom job done on a K or N frame. Really, I would want it on a GP100, but I think Wade would have my hide for it.   

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turbo1889
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Posted: July 09 2018 at 2:20pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Old Ranger wrote:
. . . .

He designed a SWC with enormous meplat having almost
straight nose with almost no taper. I have a DC Lyman
mould from the 60's [429360] for the .44Spl/Mag. Casts
a
232gr bullet of remarkable accuracy and killing power.
Hits like a panzer doing 80 mph with the accuracy of a
laser. He designed another like it in .41cal and
.358cal.
Both are quite rare now. I've been searching for the
38
version for 50 years with no luck.

. . .


Well, if you know the appropriate dimensions and you
get desperate enough you can have AccurateMolds.com or
MountainMolds.com make you up a reproduction of the
design in question. Unfortionatly, it will set you
back about a $100-$120 for a double cavity which is
about twice what I usually pay for old ideal two
cavity molds when I can find them and snap them up.

Just an FYI option if you eventually decide you want
one bad enough. In my experience the Brass molds from
those two companies are as good or better then the
good old ideal molds and they make custom one-offs
made to your specs within the limits of their
manufacturing process with no additional custom design
fee for a one-off.

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