Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  

Home | Load data | Articles | Ballistic Calc | Energy Calc
Long Guns
 Handloads.Com Forum : Long Guns
Subject Topic: Realistic practice Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
richhodg66
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: December 13 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4355
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 12 2018 at 2:01pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

Been taking a lesson from Guy lately and divorcing myself from the bench in prep for hunting season. Still not sure if it's the rifle I'll use, but the sporterized '93 Mauser I picked up about 6 months ago and rapidly fell in love with is the gun I've been shooting the most.

Part of that is I bought one of the Midsouth "Soup can" molds, special order Lee six-cavity, which has turned out to be a good, general purpose bullet. I cast about 3K of them the other day and I have an awful lot of medium and fast pistol powders I got from Dad. Settled on 10 grains of Green Dot which is a consistent, 2" or better at 100 yards load from the bench. I've been loading a lot and shooting the rifle almost every day at 9" paper plates, which seem about the right size of a deer's vital area, 100 yards away from various field expedient positions, starting with a seated position using shooting sticks since that's how I try to do it in the hunting field either from a tree stand or blind. Sometimes just resting on a knee, but I can pretty reliably keep them all well within that paper plate every time,

A few days ago I started doing this from off hand, totally unsupported. Gotta admit, it's humbling, but I still hit that plate more than I miss it and the misses are usually close. A 100 yard shot in the woods would be very, very unusual for me, I set myself up for close shots, but nice to know I can do it. I plan to keep this practice regimen up. I won't use this load, have a better cast bullet killing load in mind, but I think this is going to help me when the season opens up later.

Great thing about being a handloader, there's no way I could shoot this much with anything but a .22 rimfire and maybe not even that for as cheaply as I'm doing this now.

__________________
"The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage."
Back to Top View richhodg66's Profile Search for other posts by richhodg66
 
M700
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: June 12 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 6423
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 12 2018 at 5:20pm | IP Logged Quote M700

Wow! Cool.

"Soup can" mold? I don't know what that is... Explain please?

Your Mauser is a 7mm?

Ya, Thank You for getting off the bench! I really wish more riflemen would do so. Ya, 100 yards offhand is no joke if a fellow doesn't practice it.

Semper Gumby! Our unofficial USMC motto of being "always flexible" - it was pretty funny then, and now. At least to me.

Regards, Guy
Back to Top View M700's Profile Search for other posts by M700
 
richhodg66
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: December 13 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4355
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 12 2018 at 6:04pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

The soup can was touted to me as a flat nosed variant of Lee's 130 grain RN (which has been a good bullet in everything I've tried it in, but they only make one and two cavity molds of it) but there are some differences. Link to it here with a diagram; https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/000067mmsoupcan/ 7mm-soup-can-130-grain-six-cavity-special-order-mold

It's a good bullet, and might even be a good hunting bullet, but I have other plans for that. I've had real good luck hunting deer with cast in .30 calibers and bigger, but the smaller bore you go, the more you are pushing the envelope. I think 7mm is as small as I'll try on deer and I have the old Ideal 287308 which is hollow pointed and weighs 165 grains. Shoots well in this rifle too.

I used to hate Lee molds but now have learned to deal with them and the six cavity ones will produce a pile of bullets very quickly. For anyone shooting in volume, they are a great way to go. I size mine to 287, even though my rifle has a commercial barrel on it so no real worries about leading. I like the 7x57 a lot, always wanted a good sporter and have had a few, just all of them hit me wrong in one way or another. This one is a keeper.

I plan on doing more offhand practice and from other field positions. I have an 8" gong here I need to get set up and start using that, but paper plates are cheap. Sure is nice the past three years being able to load and shoot on my own place.

Back in the Army, whenever we were being briefed on some operation or task that was likely to suck or was very subject to change, we'd tell everybody to be "rigidly flexible".

__________________
"The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage."
Back to Top View richhodg66's Profile Search for other posts by richhodg66
 
turbo1889
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 08 2006
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 1686
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 13 2018 at 7:06pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Gophers make for great realistic practice,
find someone with some agricultural land
that is infested with the little buggers
and provided your safe and use cast bullet
reduced loads suitable for the game they
will probably be happy to have you shoot
them as much as you want. So long as you
don't drag a bench out there with you it's
exceptionally good practice under field
conditions for big game, especially
considering that a near miss at a gopher
usually translates to still being a vital
shot on big game.

That is how I'm practical practice
shooting with my bow right now. Broken a
few arrows hitting rocks but thankfully my
bow seems to like the cheap $4 walmart
arrows so no big loss and there is a
satisfaction that comes from stalking up
to 25 yards or so and nailing a fat little
wistle pig clean through with an arrow
staking him to the ground and when it
comes time for big game I'll be in
practice and have confidence to put my
shot where it needs to go.

In the past I've practiced the same way
for rifle hunting which was instrumental
in my successful completion of one of my
life hunting goals, namely to take an
antelope at long range with a cast bullet
load out of an old school WWII or earlier
sniper setup. Pulled it off at just under
300 yards with a Soviet Mosin setup
complete with original WWII era Soviet
sniper scope with no crosshairs just a
simple metal post sticking up from the
bottom inside the scope between the
lenses. I never would have had the
ability or confidence to make that shot if
it hadn't been for all the shots I made on
gophers with that same setup before I ever
went after big game with it.

Edited by turbo1889 on August 13 2018 at 7:15pm


__________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
Back to Top View turbo1889's Profile Search for other posts by turbo1889
 
getsmart
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 11 2004
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 1227
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 14 2018 at 10:50am | IP Logged Quote getsmart

I usually take one or two offhand shots at 100 yards before and after my bench session.
After reading your post, I think I am going to shoot more offhand.
Eric

__________________
"There are some things that you know, that your parents do not know...." Al Gore, Jr. to a bunch of 12-year old students: 2008.
Back to Top View getsmart's Profile Search for other posts by getsmart Visit getsmart's Homepage
 
richhodg66
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: December 13 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4355
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 14 2018 at 3:24pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

turbo1889 wrote:
Gophers make for great realistic practice,
find someone with some agricultural land
that is infested with the little buggers
and provided your safe and use cast bullet
reduced loads suitable for the game they
will probably be happy to have you shoot
them as much as you want. So long as you
don't drag a bench out there with you it's
exceptionally good practice under field
conditions for big game, especially
considering that a near miss at a gopher
usually translates to still being a vital
shot on big game.

That is how I'm practical practice
shooting with my bow right now. Broken a
few arrows hitting rocks but thankfully my
bow seems to like the cheap $4 walmart
arrows so no big loss and there is a
satisfaction that comes from stalking up
to 25 yards or so and nailing a fat little
wistle pig clean through with an arrow
staking him to the ground and when it
comes time for big game I'll be in
practice and have confidence to put my
shot where it needs to go.

In the past I've practiced the same way
for rifle hunting which was instrumental
in my successful completion of one of my
life hunting goals, namely to take an
antelope at long range with a cast bullet
load out of an old school WWII or earlier
sniper setup. Pulled it off at just under
300 yards with a Soviet Mosin setup
complete with original WWII era Soviet
sniper scope with no crosshairs just a
simple metal post sticking up from the
bottom inside the scope between the
lenses. I never would have had the
ability or confidence to make that shot if
it hadn't been for all the shots I made on
gophers with that same setup before I ever
went after big game with it.


One of my favorite past times once it gets cool, is to hunt fox squirrels with a rifle. I live on 18 acres which is an old rock quarry abandoned about 60 years ago, so heavily wooded now, but much more rolling and hilly than most places around here. I can sit on a ridge or knoll and wait to ambush them, I usually use shooting sticks from a seated position like I deer hunt. I usually use a .22 Hornet and cast, have occasionally used a single shot .30-30, maybe I can come up with a light enough load to do that with this Mauser?   

__________________
"The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage."
Back to Top View richhodg66's Profile Search for other posts by richhodg66
 
hoghunter
Senior Member




Joined: March 01 2010
Posts: 471
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 14 2018 at 3:44pm | IP Logged Quote hoghunter

Field practice is the way to go in my opinion. The only time I shoot off a bench is during load development or initial sight in of a scope. Shooting of a bench has no value to me otherwise.

After missing a large buck several years ago I stopped shooting off hand. After experimenting with many support systems including bipods, I opted for a shooting cross stick system, home made, for all my hunting i.e varmints, predators and deer.

I took two four foot pieces of 1/2" diameter solid aluminum rod, cut them to 42" length. Installed a 12" length of heater hose on each end (to protect the stock) then bound the sticks together with 1" velco. The result is a stable, lightweight, efficient, easily and quickly adjustable for elevation, and accurate field shooting tool that I can use from the sitting position which is my preferred position to shoot from when hunting.

I also carry a lightweight Sportman's chair to shoot in the sitting position which gives me four points of contact, feet on ground, elbows resting on knees. This system is very stable.

I do all my practicing off the sticks which give each shooting session a performance aspect enabling me to evaluate my capability for making a field shot at various distances.


Edited by hoghunter on August 14 2018 at 3:46pm
Back to Top View hoghunter's Profile Search for other posts by hoghunter
 
KinleyWater
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 12 2016
Posts: 428
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 14 2018 at 5:18pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

When I want realistic practice, I just drive through Baltimore

Unfortunately, it's practice for being on the wrong end of the range

Okay, okay, I too will commit to shooting less from the bench. I'll see how it goes this Saturday.

Edited by KinleyWater on August 14 2018 at 5:19pm


__________________
List of guns/ calibers I own.
Pithy quote.
Back to Top View KinleyWater's Profile Search for other posts by KinleyWater
 
richhodg66
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: December 13 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4355
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 14 2018 at 7:29pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

hoghunter wrote:
Field practice is the way to go in my opinion. The only time I shoot off a bench is during load development or initial sight in of a scope. Shooting of a bench has no value to me otherwise.

After missing a large buck several years ago I stopped shooting off hand. After experimenting with many support systems including bipods, I opted for a shooting cross stick system, home made, for all my hunting i.e varmints, predators and deer.

I took two four foot pieces of 1/2" diameter solid aluminum rod, cut them to 42" length. Installed a 12" length of heater hose on each end (to protect the stock) then bound the sticks together with 1" velco. The result is a stable, lightweight, efficient, easily and quickly adjustable for elevation, and accurate field shooting tool that I can use from the sitting position which is my preferred position to shoot from when hunting.

I also carry a lightweight Sportman's chair to shoot in the sitting position which gives me four points of contact, feet on ground, elbows resting on knees. This system is very stable.

I do all my practicing off the sticks which give each shooting session a performance aspect enabling me to evaluate my capability for making a field shot at various distances.
I like the idea of shooting sticks, I started carrying a monopod then switched to this telescoping bi pod thing which is basically shooting sticks. I hunt from stands or ground blind type set ups so seated in some kind of chair with those is the way I normally hunt. Even squirrel hunting I use them, just normally sit on the ground with my back against a tree.

Part of being a good field shot is being resourceful and creative in how you find a rest to use.

__________________
"The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage."
Back to Top View richhodg66's Profile Search for other posts by richhodg66
 
turbo1889
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 08 2006
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 1686
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 14 2018 at 9:58pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

As far as shooting sticks go. Most of the
places I hunt are just full of these
things called trees that are like living
monopod shooting sticks already packed out
into the hunting area and scattered all
around already setup. Just take your off
hand that you hold the front of the gun
with normally and instead grab the side of
one of these tree things with it and rest
the forearm of the gun mostly on top of
your hand with like maybe one finger
curled up around it on one side with the
tree on the other. Works like a charm for
a good steady rest for a long shot.

__________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
Back to Top View turbo1889's Profile Search for other posts by turbo1889
 
turbo1889
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 08 2006
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 1686
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 14 2018 at 10:57pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Later realized some might take my above
post as intentionally insulting - not
case, just trying to add some humor.

__________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
Back to Top View turbo1889's Profile Search for other posts by turbo1889
 
richhodg66
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: December 13 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4355
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 15 2018 at 4:12am | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

turbo1889 wrote:
As far as shooting sticks go. Most of the
places I hunt are just full of these
things called trees that are like living
monopod shooting sticks already packed out
into the hunting area and scattered all
around already setup. Just take your off
hand that you hold the front of the gun
with normally and instead grab the side of
one of these tree things with it and rest
the forearm of the gun mostly on top of
your hand with like maybe one finger
curled up around it on one side with the
tree on the other. Works like a charm for
a good steady rest for a long shot.


And I do this too sometimes, like I said, part of being a good field shot is being resourceful and creative in finding a rest. Offhand should be a last resort.

As light and convenient as this telescoping bipod is, and because I tend to hunt ambush style, I prefer to be set up over the avenue of approach I'm covering. That being the case, carrying a rest is a good option. It weighs nothing, folds to less than 2' and I just tie a piece of rope to it and carry it slung over a shoulder while I'm walking.

__________________
"The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage."
Back to Top View richhodg66's Profile Search for other posts by richhodg66
 
M700
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: June 12 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 6423
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 15 2018 at 6:50am | IP Logged Quote M700

I've shot a number of critters using my hunting pack as a rifle rest, so I practice some from it:


Standing, with the 375 H&H, looks like it kicks worse than it really does.


Not many trees where I hunt antelope. Weird!


Sometimes not many trees here in Washington, mule deer hunting either! Good grief!


So, I practice a lot from standing and sitting, occasionally kneeling. My son took this photo a couple of years back, practicing with the 30-06, shooting at the 300 yard gong at the gun club:


I shoot more from the positions I'm weakest in, like standing. Am slowly getting my sitting position better & better. I hope that pays off this year! My neck isn't doing very well for shooting from prone anymore. Doggone it!

Guy
Back to Top View M700's Profile Search for other posts by M700
 
hoghunter
Senior Member




Joined: March 01 2010
Posts: 471
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 15 2018 at 3:44pm | IP Logged Quote hoghunter

As Dirty Harry said, "A man has to know his limitations." Even though I was in the military and was trained I'm a poor off hand shot.

It's why I went to shooting sticks and they work for me very very well. Also shooting off a chair with my sticks provides a better field of view offering more shots than prone or sitting on the ground.

I spend many more days in the field hunting varmints (eastern groundhogs) and predators (foxes and coyotes) than big game. So precise shooting is critical. It's the main reason I went to shooting sticks. It worked so well I adopted it for big game hunting.

With practices you'll be amazed how precise you can shoot. If you watch the Winchester's World of White Tails on the Outdoor Chaneel you can see Ron Sponer (not sure of spelling) taking deer off his shooting sticks.
Back to Top View hoghunter's Profile Search for other posts by hoghunter
 
richhodg66
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: December 13 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4355
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 15 2018 at 4:00pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

I try real hard to avoid off hand shots too, just smart if you ask me. Two times in the past three years or so I took them, one with a .32 Special lever gun with a low powered scope and one with an iron sighted .45-70. The .32 was a small doe, maybe 60-70 yards that I had honestly walked up on, had gotten cold and bored on stand and decided to look around. Turned out perfect, but I knew there was a lot of luck involved.

The other was from a tree stand and it was either stand up and do the off hand shot or not get a deer that day, had to clear a lot of limbs that wouldn't allow the sticks and it was getting dark fast. I really didn't feel comfortable doing it. Neither was a long shot, neither was probably a hard shot for a guy who practices it which I was not at the time (trying to fix that now), but I'd really, really rather have some kind of a rest.

Prone would be good if you can get above the ground brush and I did just that on a small buck a few years ago standing in a Winter wheat field that allowed it. Sure is a lot steadier than any other position, even with the shooting sticks, but not a practical field position around here most of the time.

__________________
"The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage."
Back to Top View richhodg66's Profile Search for other posts by richhodg66
 
REM1875
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 13 2010
Location: Buffalo Springs, Clay County, TX
Posts: 617
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 16 2018 at 2:14pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

richhodg66

I use 30-30 brass for the 32 Win SPL as it   is a hell of
a lot cheaper....I just dremel burr a couple of marks on
the bottom so there are no mistakes...

But to be honest most of my 32 Win Spl are cast bullet
from and old pitted mold that shoot remarkable well (with
a little monkey around they also work as 8 mm rounds) But
sadly I can't get them to work as 8x56R Hungarians .....

About 40 years into this deal we broke down and finally
got some 30-30s ...a bolt gun and a pump....the Marlin
and Winchesters are 32 Win SPL.

Edited by REM1875 on August 16 2018 at 2:15pm
Back to Top View REM1875's Profile Search for other posts by REM1875
 
richhodg66
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: December 13 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4355
Online Status: Offline
Posted: August 16 2018 at 2:55pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

The .32 Special is pretty awesome. That slow twist people gripe about make it better (theoretically anyway) than the .30-30 with cast.

For that 8x56R, Lee makes a mold, 205 grain that supposedly drops at .330 and they sell a .329 sizer for it. I have an 8x57 with a pretty bad oversized bore and worn throat, so I got one of the molds, just haven't tried it yet.

__________________
"The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage."
Back to Top View richhodg66's Profile Search for other posts by richhodg66
 

Home | Load data | Articles | Ballistic Calc | Energy Calc

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum

Powered by Web Wiz Forums version
Copyright ©2001-2008 Web Wiz Guide

This page was generated in 0.1406 seconds.