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M700
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Posted: August 17 2018 at 4:43am | IP Logged Quote M700

Interesting rifle! Helped a friend sight his in at 100 yards yesterday with the factory sights. It's one of the modern lnline type muzzle loaders with 50 cal Begara barrel. Uses 209 shotshell primers and he was using some kind of "white lightning" pellets for propellant along with a plastic base, plastic tipped, copper jacketed bullet.

The sights had fiber optic inserts, two green dots for the rear sight and one red/orange dot for the front.

All rather amazing to me - I've only used "traditional" type muzzle-loaders in the past, with either black powder or pyrodex and either a patched ball or a big ol' lead conical bullet.

At any rate - I was impressed - someone at the factory is paying attention to how these things are set up. First shot at 50 yards was almost dead on! Then moved out to 100 yards and made a tiny adjustment to the sight for a bit more elevation. Wow! He shot it several times, I only put one round through the rifle, just to get the feel for it. Every shot we made yesterday at 50 or 100 yards would easily have put venison in the freezer.

I'm not all that enthused about the modern muzzle-loaders appearance, but my goodness, it is a good rifle! I have no doubt but that he'll be able to fill his deer & elk tags with it this season. He's thinking bear as well. :)

Just thoughts from someone who hasn't used a muzzle loader in a lot of years. The new ones are really very good rifles.

Regards, Guy
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twillis
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Posted: August 17 2018 at 7:59am | IP Logged Quote twillis

The black powder barrel for my Encore shoots a well as the 30.06 barrel. I use Blackhorn 209 substitute in mine. Some folks around here use their in-line during regular firearms season.

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turbo1889
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Posted: August 18 2018 at 4:46am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

I picked up a 45-cal inline years ago for
really cheap at the end of the speed craze
that they were having shooting 150-gr
three pydrox pellet loads under a plastic
45/40 sabot filled with a 40-cal pistol
bullet. The craze died out once the first
wave or two of purchasers found out that
although the velocity claims with such a
load were indeed obtainable it couldn't
bedone with reasonably consist accuracy
and when those little 40-cal pistol
bullets built for nothing more then hot
10mm carbine loads at maximum actually hit
something they tended to explode on impact
like a varmint bullet often creating nasty
surface wounds on big game without
penetrating deep into the vitals.

Anyway mine shoots great with a 60-90
grain powder load topped with a 350-500
grain cast lead conical duplicating
anywhere between a light 45-60 and heavy
45-90 cartridge load.

Really glad to hear that your friend is
using a full caliber projectile, the ones
you describe I think are called "power
bases" or something like that. I box of
them in 45-cal and put them through my gun
years ago when I first got it and they
worked fine. Just see no reason to pay
good $ for them when I can just use any of
the 45-cal rifle cast bullet molds I have
for my gun and get as good or better
results. Just cast from soft pure lead
and do up batches of them pre-engraved
with the rifling profile of my gun by
pulling the breach plug on my guns barrel
and tapping batches of BP compatible lubed
bullets through the bore with an aluminum
rod and hammer from the breach in nose
first and all the way out the muzzle.
Once I got a good bag full of bullets
prepped in that manner just reassemble the
gun and go shooting loading from the
muzzle end you just gently rotate the base
of the bullet in the muzzle until the
rifling lines up and "snaps in" and then
they push down the barrel nice and easy
and are a good tight seal with the rifling
already engraved in the bullet.

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What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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Buffalogun
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Posted: August 18 2018 at 9:14am | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

M700 wrote:
Interesting rifle! Helped a friend sight his in at 100 yards yesterday with the factory sights. It's one of the modern lnline type muzzle loaders with 50 cal Begara barrel
Regards, Guy


Credit for inventing the first inline muzzleloader has been cast upon a Swiss gentleman named "Pauley", back in 1808. The design created inspiration for a couple of later lock designs which include Paul Mauser's bolt action.
So "modern" must refer to the materials and the refined design and not the basic action.

The link below includes some good reading, particularly for someone who may be looking to buy a "modern" muzzleloader in the future.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/thompson_impact.htm

I have a side-hammer Lyman Deerstalker to which I have replaced the original barrel with a .50 Green Mountain Long Range Hunter. It shoots black-powder and pyrodex quite well.

I also have one of TC's Impact inlines. The Impact allows me to use a scope which aids my aging eyes. Like Terry, I use Black Horn 209. I have found BH209 to be the most accurate and reliable MZ propellant to date.
BH209 powder granules are very consistent in size and that means you can weigh your charges, which I do.

Also, I have shied away from using pure lead projectiles as they tend to flatten like a pie plate and then penetration is limited.
With the fast twist rate of the Impact, I can shoot my cast bullets or jacketed pistol bullets that will stand up to velocities that can reach near 2,000 fps. They perform very well.


Mike



Edited by Buffalogun on August 18 2018 at 9:18am


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M700
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Posted: August 19 2018 at 1:31am | IP Logged Quote M700

Ya, I should have taken a photo of his "modern inline" muzzle loader. Pretty cool.

Breaks open like a T/C Contender, sort of.

The breech plug unscrews easily, and also houses the 209 shotshell primer. Entire ignition system is nicely protected from the weather.

Barrel & action made of stainless, and quite well made it seemed to me.

I didn't really care for the looks of the black rubbery type stock. It worked very well, but... Ah well.

I still prefer my "traditional" walnut-stocked T/C percussion rifle with the octagonal barrel, but this new rifle my buddy got was very impressive.

Kind of like the difference between a classic, wood stocked & blued bolt action rifle and a new synthetic stocked, stainless steel rifle.

Regards, Guy
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richhodg66
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Posted: August 19 2018 at 7:00pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

I have done a lot of muzzle loader deer hunting over the years, mostly with an Italian made Hawken, but have shot a few with a cheap traditions buck hunter inline. It isn't a tack driver, but it'll hold minute of bambi. I use some kind of green plastic sabots I bought and the Lyman 300 grain .44 pistol bullet I cast and 100 grains of Hogdon Triple Seven. Mine is set up now to use musket caps and they make specialized 209 primers for inlines. Apparently, the ones for shotgun reloading are a bit hot and tend to unseat the bullet before really igniting the powder which isn't optimal for accuracy.

There are places that I've hunted which were "shotgun only" for safety purposes, Fort Sill is mostly that way and about half of Fort Riley is. Both allow muzzle loaders in those shotgun only areas as did the National Grasslands in Texas I used to hunt sometimes. It is honestly much, much cheaper and easier to get good performance from an inline than any kind of a shotgun slug, which makes me wonder why so much goes into deer hunting shotguns these days, I guess a lot of guys just have some real misgivings about separate loading ammo.

Not a muzzle loader, but I have one of the CVA Optima Elite rifles and have been impressed with it. Seems to me to be a much better product that the old H&R offerings were. I don't plan to buy another inline anytime soon, but I bet those CVAs are plenty good enough as hunting guns.

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turbo1889
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Posted: August 19 2018 at 9:00pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

richhodg66 wrote:
. . . Mine is set up
now to use musket caps and they make
specialized 209 primers for inlines.
Apparently, the ones for shotgun reloading
are a bit hot and tend to unseat the
bullet before really igniting the powder
which isn't optimal for accuracy.


Correct, it makes a noticeable accuracy
difference in my in line if I use one of
the muzzleloader 209 primers instead of a
standard 209 shotgun primers. Musket caps
work great for my percussion sidelocks
though way better then just a standard #10
or #11 cap! I don't think my inline would
convert to a musket cap because the breach
plug does not use any kind of nipple but
has a chamber to fit the 209 cut directly
into the plug and the 209 is loaded via a
mini 22-lr sized bolt mechanism with an
extractor claw on the bolt to grab the rim
on the 209 primer and pull it out and
eject it just like it we're a cartridge.
Makes for slick quick repriming but isn't
very convertible to use anything but a 209
for ignition.

Quote:
There are places that I've hunted
which were "shotgun only" for safety
purposes, Fort Sill is mostly that way and
about half of Fort Riley is. Both allow
muzzle loaders in those shotgun only areas
as did the National Grasslands in Texas I
used to hunt sometimes. It is honestly
much, much cheaper and easier to get good
performance from an inline than any kind
of a shotgun slug, which makes me wonder
why so much goes into deer hunting
shotguns these days, I guess a lot of guys
just have some real misgivings about
separate loading ammo.

. . .


Actually, it's more likely misgivings
about not having a second, third shot
capability. I once filled all three of my
doe tages for a weapons restricted zone in
one incident one year. Found three does
moving together as a group and shot all
three of them in rapid succession with one
shotgun slug each. One standing frontal
shot, then a quartering away running shot
and then an over the rump into the back of
the neck shot which you have to time just
right in their bounce as they run away to
avoid hitting them in the rear. No way in
heck I could have pulled that off with a
muzzleloader. A lot of people though don't
go out with multiple doe tags though
intending to drop multiple animals out of
a group at once, a lot of people aren't
confident they can make their first and
only shot count.

__________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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richhodg66
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Posted: August 19 2018 at 9:51pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

I shot two does a few seconds apart two years ago, because I had the tags, could use the meat and the opportunity presented itself which would allow me to be picky about a buck during archery season.

Never, never, never again.

It was from my favorite stand which always produces in the Fall, but it's very steep up hill and thick woods in any direction you go, then almost a mile cross country to the closest place I can park a vehicle. I honestly thought I had given myself a heart attack and decided then and there that unless they were standing beside the truck, one a day is the limit from now on.

I have played around with round balls in shotguns, I even have a rifled 20 gauge still. I'll eventually use one of those round ball loads to kill a deer with, they are easily accurate enough under the conditions I hunt, but a muzzle loading rifle is a preferable weapon to a slug gun for me.

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turbo1889
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Posted: August 19 2018 at 10:21pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Where I shot those three does I had about
200-yards to the nearest old logging road
(kelly humped & closed to motorized
traffic) and I used my pedal powered
mountain bike and cargo trailer (totally
legal) to get them out and even all the
way home, only a half dozen miles or so of
gravel back roads to my place. Many of
the areas where I hunt I take the bike and
trailer rather then a motor-vehicle to get
to my hunting location. Then I unhitch
the trailer and hide it out of immediate
sight chained and locked to a tree. Then
I travel the old logging roads on the
mountain bike, stopping and cable locking
the bike to a nearby tree and then stalk
on foot off the old logging roads, then
back to the bike to quickly and quietly
move to another good spot I know. Then
stalk on foot off the old logging roads
again, repeat. Sometimes I find the deer
near the old logging roads while on the
bike, sometimes off the old logging roads
back in the thick. Either way I drag any
game I score almost to the old logging
road to the closest clump of brush to hide
it in. Then I go get the trailer from
it's concealment spot and then go back to
where I left the game and then haul it
home on the trailer behind the bike.
Works like a charm for my situation.
Sounds like where you are hunting you
don't have a network of old logging roads
to get a mountain bike with cargo trailer
in to use to haul out game, but if you
ever do it's the best method I have found.

__________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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richhodg66
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Posted: August 20 2018 at 3:34am | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

Where my stand is, I'm 40 yards or so to the shore of the lake and have been considering using a boat if I want to keep using that spot, but we had such a dry year, the water level is quite a ways out from where it normally is which happened once before to me, and allowed me to pull a cart back on what would normally be the bottom of the lake, i.e., flat, hard packed and vegetation free. I hope it stays this way.

The last couple of times, I actually had one or the other of my son's around to help too. The buck I killed last archery season was big, and would have been a significant emotional event doing it myself, but having a young guy in his early 20s and fresh out of the Marine Corps around made it a lot easier.

Back to inlines, I eventually want to see if mine will use the big conicals I cast for my Hawken and try to skip the sabots. For all I know, it may shoot better.

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