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John Van Gelder
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Posted: August 28 2018 at 5:46am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

A couple of good videos, the first is about aggressive bears..Beware of predatory male black bears

The second is a reasonably practical demonstration.
Charging Bear Attack Drill
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paul105
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Posted: August 30 2018 at 1:46pm | IP Logged Quote paul105

My always gun (left front pocket) is a Kahr CW45 loaded with 200gr FP monometal bullets from Cutting Edge. I worked up to 1,000 fps and they function fine in the Kahr. Underwood makes a +P 200gr Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator that chronos right at 1,000 fps from the little Kahr (their 255gr LFP +P chronos close to 950fps in the Kahr). Couple of "internet" tests show the Cutting Edge to penetrate a bit more than the Lehigh.

When in the back country, I add a .44 Mag (S&W 329 or M69) loaded with 260gr WFNGC LBT (Montana Bullet Works) Over 23.0gr H110.

Here's a picture of the Cutting Edge 200gr Bullets.



FWIW,

Paul
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: August 30 2018 at 3:24pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

paul105

Those are some good looking loads..

I have always felt that the .45ACP was the "undiscovered country", just waiting for folks to make improvements.
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turbo1889
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Posted: September 01 2018 at 4:34am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Someone mentioned "feral dogs". I have
had issues with them around my place, it
has gotten bad enough several times in the
past where they started running together
as a full flagged wild pack. So far I
have not been attached directly by a feral
dog or feral pack of dogs. I have lost
livestock to them and I have specifically
hunted them down and neutralized them, I
am not talking about defending stock
against them when they come after the
stock (although that has happened as well)
I'm talking about going afield and
tracking down the pack and managing to
close in to the point before engagement
that with a trusty high capacity tactical
pump 12ga. loaded with buck or a semi-auto
combat rifle it's possible to take down a
majority of the pack in a single
engagement. I don't think I would trust a
handgun for that kind of work and the
thought of being in a position where
rather then me going after the pack and
ambushing the pack it being the other way
around and only having a handgun to defend
myself with - well that is a scary thought
for me knowing what I know about feral
dogs from hard experience.

Be glad though if it is a feral dog(s) the
kind with owners is way worse because you
have to deal with the owners as well.
Especially bad are the owners that
intentionally use their dog against you.
Things have a real tendency to go sideways
when you shoot their dog after they sick
it on you or your stock even when standing
on your own land much less how things go
when you were peacefully trying to travel
on a public right of way and they sick
their dog on you for daring to use "their
road" which is a public roadway that they
just happen to be one of thousands who
have a short bit of road frontage along
their property.

I don't hate dogs even the ones that have
gone full wild feral back to their wolf
roots and formed a pack. They aren't evil
they just have a base alpha pack predator
instinct. And must be dealt with
accordingly.

Now human dog owners, that is a different
story. Some of them are pure intentional
will full EVIL and use their dogs as a
weapon to carry out things they are too
yellow to do themselves either because
they don't have the gutts to face you man
to man or because they are scarred of
punishment by the law if they get caught
where as if their dog that they sicked on
you or your stock gets traced back to them
they can put the blame on the dog. The
criminally negligent type owners that let
their dog run wild and turn to it's base
instincts aren't much better but at least
it's a case of selfish negligent stupidity
not will full EVIL but still evil in my
opinion. Just small "e" evil rather then
big "E" EVIL.

Okay got that rant out of my system.

Anyway the point I was going to make
before I got side tracked and wrote that
long rant. For vicious dogs feral or
otherwise in my EXPERIENCE NOT OPINION you
need a gun with some punch for them just
like for bears. Yah, 22 is just fine if
your on the offensive and can make that
"where you hit them" thing work for you.
But when a dog is chewing on you literally
a situation I HAVE BEEN IN especially when
the dog is jerking around doing the "tug
of war" thing with it's jaws sunk into one
of your appendages your just trying to hit
the dog as best as you can without
accidentally shooting yourself in the leg
that the dog is chewing on.

In such a situation you need raw smack
power. Three rounds of 380 center of mass
in the top of the dogs back behind it's
neck into the top of the lungs, through
the diaphragm, through the liver, into the
entrails and then punching out the bottom
of the dogs belly. NOT fired rapidly but
each of the three shots fired one at a
time re-aiming between shots before the
dog finally let go and backed off the
attack and ran back to it's owner to die.
For a determined dog especially if the dog
is on you and chewing on you before you
can bring the gun to bear you need
something with some punch to it.

__________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: September 01 2018 at 4:46am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

I think that 9mm, is about the bottom of the list of choices.

There is no such thing as too much gun, only too little, that has to be tempered with how much are you willing and comfortable to carry.

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REM1875
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Posted: September 01 2018 at 11:05am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Dogs are tough devils with a hand gun or even handgun
rounds in a rifle.
I am a big dog fan and take no joy in putting one
down.....but it's a fact of life in rural areas.....
The dogs do what they got to do to survive .....

People who let 'fluffy' out to run through the neighborhood   
while they are off to work and then let em back in 10 hours
latter have no idea 'fluffy' is known as fang or killer
through out the rest of the neighborhood ........

Edited by REM1875 on September 01 2018 at 11:06am
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Paul B.
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Posted: September 01 2018 at 2:28pm | IP Logged Quote Paul B.

Before my knees crapped out I used to do a daily walk around the block.
Sometimes I'd go around twice. I always wondered if that .38 Spl.
snubbie I carried with 125 gr. Plus P ammo would be enough if I suffered
a dog attack. There are quite a few in my neighborhood who keep pit
bulls and they would go totally ape as I walked by. Might not be so nice
if one got out and was vicious.
Paul B.
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REM1875
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Posted: September 01 2018 at 6:51pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Paul
If that's what you have ....that's what you have and it has
worked in many cases. Our 38 Spl ain't grandpa's 38
Spl...especially the round you mention...

Lead with the arm not holding the gun .....they usually go
for the closest target..... and don't waste a warning round
especially if there is more than one ..... Back up to
something where your rear is covered if possible ... and
don't run away .....

Your mileage may vary

Edited by REM1875 on September 01 2018 at 6:55pm
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: September 02 2018 at 5:12am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

18 rounds of 125 grn hard cast, at the upper end of the 9mm charts, should work and all in a relatively small lightweight package.

Before I got my 3" GP100, I carried a Ruger SP101 .38 spl. in the pocket of my vest when I was bow hunting in Alaska.

Since at the time the SP101 was offered in .357 or .38, the .38 loads I carried were the 13.5 grn of 2400 and the 170 grn Keith SWC. Definitely .38+P.
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REM1875
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Posted: September 02 2018 at 3:44pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Hey.......Hey ..... the SP101 also comes in the potent 327
Federal Magnum !!!
Surpasses the 38 SPL+ and comes close to the 357 Mag with
125 gr bullet ...... and 6 rounds

There is also the 5 rd 9 mm.......
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: September 03 2018 at 6:15am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

I saw an interesting video, comparing a couple of different calibers in pocket guns. A 9mm pocket auto, the SP101 in 9mm and one of the S&W light weight .357s.

With bullets of 124-125 grn. In either configuration revolver/auto, the 9mm produced substantially higher velocity than the .38+P, and about 100 fps faster than the .357. The .357 had the shortest barrel.

.327 Magnum.." up to 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s) with 115 gr (7.5 g; 0.26 oz) bullets, when fired from the 3 1/16" (78 mm)-barreled Ruger SP101 revolver."
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turbo1889
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Posted: September 03 2018 at 6:26am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

John Van Gelder wrote:
I saw an
interesting video, comparing a couple of
different calibers in pocket guns. A 9mm
pocket auto, the SP101 in 9mm and one of
the S&W light weight .357s.

With bullets of 124-125 grn. In either
configuration revolver/auto, the 9mm
produced substantially higher velocity
than the .38+P, and about 100 fps faster
than the .357. The .357 had the shortest
barrel.

.327 Magnum.." up to 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s)
with 115 gr (7.5 g; 0.26 oz) bullets, when
fired from the 3 1/16" (78 mm)-barreled
Ruger SP101 revolver."


One of the recent MAC videos, correct?

__________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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mikld
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Posted: September 03 2018 at 9:07am | IP Logged Quote mikld

I guess in my previous post I was thinkin' about wild 4
legged critters as there's a few back bear sightings per
year and a rare mountain lion. But after reading and
thinking, it seems to be getting more common to see
tweekers and other 2 legged scum up river, closer to
town, so my normal "just in case" tool will be either my
3" 38 loaded with max loads of W231 under a cast DEWC, or
my Ruger 9mm with 125 gr JHPs loaded hot...

__________________
My Anchor holds
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: September 04 2018 at 5:37am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

turbo

That was it.. I had a SP101, but that was back in the days before I had a chronograph. I have a 3" GP100 and a 4" GP100, I have shot both of those extensively, through my chronograph, there is negligible difference in velocity.

When making comparisons between guns and ammunition, there are a lot more variables than accounted for by just barrel length. My 3" GP100 turns in velocities within 25 fps average, of my 6" S&W mod 28.

In the video, there was a sample of one for each of the comparisons, which may be representative, a wider sample would have been more so.

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: October 31 2018 at 7:06am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Another article about using handguns for predator defense..

Predator Defense
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