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Posted: December 16 2018 at 6:32pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Yup, mainly because so many people don't
seem to want me or anyone else to have
one. Me being the non-conformist contrary
individualist that I am. Now I want one.

Have had an AR-10 in 308 for many years
but never sprung for a AR-15. But now,

Mainly interested in a pistol rather then
a rifle version because it is doubly
politically incorrect especially if
equipped with an arm brace which currently
makes it triple politically incorrect as a
legal workaround for an SBR without having
to tax stamp registration.

However, 5.56x45 out of a pistol length
barrel just seems so silly to me. 300-
Blackout makes a huge more sense. But I
would prefer to build to be within the
Montana weapons restriction zones limits
for it to be legally used to hunt deer
with in the weapons restriction zones
where you cannot use a higher powered
rifle but are limited to: Bow & Arrow,
Crossbow, Blackpowder Muzzleloader,
Shotgun or CONVENTIONAL Handgun.

"CONVENTIONAL Handgun" being defined as:
----- Straight Walled Cartridge Not
Originally Developed For Rifles
----- 10-1/2 inch max barrel length
----- No Stock, Shoulder, or Arm Brace

So, if chambered for an appropriate
cartridge with arm brace removed and just
bare buffer tube with an appropriate
barrel length an AR-15 pistol could
legally be used to hunt such areas. And
would fit nicely in a cross handlebars
rack on my mountain bike that I usually
use to hunt such areas.

The best "out of the box" option would be
a 10mm chambered upper. Those are
available and I could get a 10" barrel
version and it would fit the requirements.

But there are some even more interesting
options available as well. There is
already one guy out there that built a DIY
build for a 357-max rimless which is an
awesome build although his was a long gun:

But using the basic idea of what he did I
could go even better and buld a 10x41mm
supermag wildcat chambering using 6.8-spc
"basic brass" or a "44 stretched magnum
rimless" using x39 "basic brass".

For those who don't know "basic brass" is
brass is brass after the initial drawing
stages without the final tapering,
shouldering, and necking stages completed.
It's just the given head size with a
straight tube forward of the head. For
example there is a single "basic brass"
that is used for making everything with
the standard 30-06 308 head
specifications. In it's basic stage after
the initial drawing stages just the brass
head and long hollow tube has been formed.
That basic tube is then formed further to
usually put in some taper, a shoulder, and
neck and that same "basic brass" could end
up as anything from a 243 to a 270.

Well, the basic brass for 6.8-spc (along
with other cartridges with the same case
head) is 0.422" diameter. 10mm bullet is
0.400" diameter + 0.009"-to-0.011" brass
neck wall thickness at the case mouth.
Well all be darned !!! That just works
out perfect for a straight walled case for
a 10mm bullet with a 1.610" case length
(well within standard available draw
length for that basic brass) like the
other "maximum" and "supermag" heavy
magnum handgun cartridges. Then just need
to swap out for a 6.8-spc bolt face keep
everything else standard AR-15 parts. Use
standard P-mags with the forward inside
nubbins removed and it should work with a
two step simple off the shelf machinists
0.422" straight reemer chamber cut
followed by a throat cut. Something I can
easily do on a manual lathe without even
needing to have a custom chamber reemer

Then there is the other option. After the
44-mag and before the 445-Gates/Dan-
Wesson-SuperMag came to fruitation there
existed the "44 stretched magnum"
wildcats. There was a limitation of
available revolver cylinder lengths so
people couldn't usually go as long as the
1.610" case length that has become someway
of a standard for the "maximum" and
"SuperMag" designations for the next step
up beyond magnum revolver cartridges. But
wildcatters certainly did try using longer
length versions of the 44-mag casing to
get every tiny bit they could squeeze out
of the revolver cylinder lengths available
to them. These are collectively known as
the "44 stretched magnum" wildcats.

Well with x39 basic brass I couldn't get
all the way out to the 1.610" case length
standard because wouldn't you know it
standard draw length for x39 basic brass
is only 39 millimeters or about 1.54" draw
length. But with a diameter of 0.447" all
you need to do is bump your straight wall
chamber cut up to 0.450"-to-0.452"
diameter which the case will easily
fireform to fill leaving the head of the
case rebated only a few bare thousandths
of an inch and then you have a
case/chamber that will accept 0.430"
bullets for the 44-mag with standard
0.009"-to-0.011" case neck wall thickness.

Once again a chamber cut I could easily
make myself on a manual lathe with a
relatively inexpensive off the shelf
machinists straight reemer. And just swap
out the bolt face for the 7.62x39 version
all other parts standard. Standard P-mag
with once again the inner forward nubbins

As for hand loading standard loading dies
should work. Lee Carbide Factory Crimp
Die with it's guts removed will size the
long cases all the way down to the shell
holder if needed. Otherwise just back
standard dies off for the longer case
length. Standard 10mm Auto dies for the
"10x41 SuperMag" or standard 44-mag dies
for the "44 Stretched Magnum Rimless"

Either one of those wilcat cartridges
combined with a 10"-to-10.5" barrel length
would meet the legal definition for deer
hunting provided I removed the arm brace
and left the buffer tube bare when I took
it out hunting.

Plus, as an AR-15 pistol full diameter
straight walled cartridges that are full
standard magazine length will get the most
out of what can be got from the shorter
barrel length of a handgun platform.

I'm thinking of ordering a 300-blackout
minus lower receiver kit plus the two
extra bolt faces. Then stripped virgin
lower through my local FFL and put
together as 300-blackout pistol to start
then get some 40 and 44 barrel blank stock
and see what I can do with them on the
manual lathe I have access to. Thread and
even taper profile down to about 13/16"
diameter to the gas block attachment point
then put a sharp edge shelf down to 0.750"
where the gas block sits and hold that
3/4" diameter to the muzzle. So it's a
nice sold barrel with the lip right in the
right spot for the back of the gas block
to shove right up against the lip. Drill
an undersize gas port. Chamber and crown
the barrels putting it's length just under
the legal for hunting 10-1/2" max length.

Then assemple and test fire loads manually
cying the action till I got a good set of
handloads figured out and then start
opening up the gas ports one drill size
larger at a time until they cycle.

What you guys think. Sound like a decent

What you think of wildcatting long rimless
"Maximum", "SuperMag", "Stretched Magnum"
cartridges like that for an AR pistol
using basic brass as is just trimmed to
length and left completely straight wall,
no taper, no shoulder?

What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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Senior Member


Joined: July 25 2005
Location: Leftist Coast
Posts: 8323
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Posted: December 16 2018 at 6:48pm | IP Logged Quote Slick

"Impracticality" is often directly proportionate to the size of the smile it will put on your face.

- and I like to smile a lot...

The only time you have too much ammunition is when your house is on fire...
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