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Subject Topic: .50 -70 and a case full of IMR7828 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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rednekpaul
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Posted: December 17 2018 at 6:32pm | IP Logged Quote rednekpaul

A few years back I was searching the internet for .50-70 smokeless loads. I came across a guy who had a theory about using very slow burning powder in his .50-90 sharps. Long story short he tried in his "blackpowder only" .50-90 sharps with 90 grains of IMR 7828 and didn`t have any pressure problems.
I been thinking about this and wondered about trying IMR 7828 in the .50-70.
I used the lee dippers and found the one that would fill the case to the bottom of a seated 450 grain bullet. I didn`t weigh it but it would be about 50 grains of IMR 7828. I loaded up 5 of them to try.
I have a Trapdoor .50-70 that I used for this.
Ok I`m not stupid so at my private range I strapped the rifle down set up my chrono and a target. Put my old pickup behind this setup with a string tied to the trigger ran it under my pickup for protection.
Tested the setup with 5 shots from my 25 grains of IMR 4198 load. It averaged 1110 fps over the chrony.
With much anxiety I fired the first of my .50-70 rounds with a full case of IMR 7828. No the rifle didn`t blow up. I fired all 5 and they averaged 1180 fps with no high pressure signs.
Your thoughts?.......
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richhodg66
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Posted: December 17 2018 at 8:25pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

It's very slow burning. Back in the '80s, my Dad shot a lot of the AA8700, 20mm cannon powder surplus in .45-70 and got good accuracy, just a lot of unburned powder and soot. You really couldn't fit enough of it in a case to be dangerous. Some guys even do duplex loads with it using a kicker load of a faster stick powder then a case full of 8700 on top of that. Not something I'm going to try.

Did you have a lot of unburned powder? It sounds like it will work OK, just seems awfully inefficient to use 90 grains of it when 25 grains of 4198 will do basically the same thing.

Seems I heard somewhere that 7828 was being discontinued. A friend gave me a can of it many years ago, and it seems to me like I shot it up in my 6mm, which likes slow burning powders. Can't remember being unimpressed with it, but Winchester 760/H-414 has put all the other powders I tried in it to shame.

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rednekpaul
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Posted: December 18 2018 at 7:50pm | IP Logged Quote rednekpaul

richhodg66 wrote:


Did you have a lot of unburned powder? It sounds like it will work OK, just seems awfully inefficient to use 90 grains of it when 25 grains of 4198 will do basically the same thing.

Ya there is some unburned powder, blow into the chamber clears it. I`m using about 50 grains in the .50-70, the 90 grains is what the guy with the .50-90 was using.
The reason I`m trying this is the 25 grain IMR 4198 load only fills the case half full. I use a thick wad to keep the powder against the primer. With the full case of IMR 7828 I can eliminate this step.
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Slick
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Posted: December 18 2018 at 9:17pm | IP Logged Quote Slick

rednekpaul wrote:
Your thoughts?.......


I think what your doing is probably safer than making "mouse-fart" loads with a a pinch of faster-burning pistol powder.

After a good amount of testing with "reduced" loads using pistol powder, I became uncomfortable with the surprisingly high velocities I could achieve with 15 grains or so of Unique. I concluded that there had to be a pressure spike somewhere that could potentially be dangerous. While I never "ringed" a chamber, I can't help but wonder if such rings are caused by sharp pressure spikes?

Since your working at the opposite end of the spectrum, I would say that as long as you have a good crimp and are not finding lots of unburnt powder kernels in the barrel - then you are most likely on a safe track even though your rifle was not meant for smokeless powder (given the velocities you posted). Some rules seem to be better made for breaking than others.

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turbo1889
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Posted: December 24 2018 at 8:52pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

I have used R-17 in my inline 45 cal
muzzlestuffer with zero issues. But then
I already knew it had a stable low
pressure burn from trying it out at 100+
grain loads pushing heavy full bore cast
lead shotgun slugs down fully rifled slug
guns following Ed Hubels work.

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