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Desert Eagle41
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Posted: December 29 2018 at 8:42am | IP Logged Quote Desert Eagle41

If you have seen my other thread in the "long rifle" section I have not been successful with trailboss in 223. I don't really care as I am using Varget mostly and only had the trailboss when I couldn't get the other and maybe it was bought for pistol anyway. Since giving up on 223 I would like to work on 38sp and 357 mag to get rid of this powder. I have loaded 2.5g for 38 using 146g hollow base wad cutter and 4g for the same in 357. Will shoot and get back to you all. Craig

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Ranch 13
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Posted: December 29 2018 at 9:07am | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

Trailboss was designed for handgun cases. It was intended to give the CAS
shooters a full case load with mousephart velocity. It works decent in that
application, but I've yet to see any thing resembling accuracy in any rifle
cartridge.
Just make sure you don't crush those little donuts when you seat the bullet,
crushing/compressing that stuff makes it give pressure spikes.
What most folks forget to look at when loading the stuff, despite the slow
velocity, it's still operating at maximum pressure.
Hogdons web data is a good place to look for load , pressure and velocity .

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Desert Eagle41
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Posted: December 30 2018 at 8:52am | IP Logged Quote Desert Eagle41

Well back from the range and here we go. The Trailboss loads were so light it was boring to shoot them. 357 didn't even seem like more than the 38sp loads. This is very bad powder. I will think of a way to get rid of it. Craig


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Ham Gunner
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Posted: December 30 2018 at 10:02am | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

Looks like you discovered what that powder was actually meant to be used for. Very light safe loads for plinking and of course, Cowboy Action type shooting where one does not want nor need full power loads.

If you want normal velocity loads, Trailboss is NOT the powder you want. Jacking up the load beyond what the manuals recommend in order to get more velocity will quickly spike the pressures well beyond safe levels. This powder is NOT one to play with if you want velocity.

If you do not wish to load light plinking loads, you might trade it to someone that does or it would make good fertilizer for flowers or the garden.

Edited by Ham Gunner on December 30 2018 at 10:12am


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Desert Eagle41
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Posted: December 30 2018 at 12:06pm | IP Logged Quote Desert Eagle41

Ya Ham I think I'll take this powder out with the next load of trash!!!!! Craig

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Ham Gunner
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Posted: December 30 2018 at 3:41pm | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

Oh, it's great powder. Nothing wrong with it at all if used within it's limits.

Certainly don't just toss it in the trash. At least give your lawn or some shrubs a good feeding if you can not find another use for it.

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Desert Eagle41
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Posted: December 30 2018 at 4:36pm | IP Logged Quote Desert Eagle41

I think I was only kidding but not sure. I will say that with the max loads there was very little powder in each case and if you follow the directions for filling the case up to the seated bullet then measure the powder and that is your max. Well in this case it would be somewhere near 10. I will do it now please wait....OK I am back...and it is double at 38sp max is 6g and 357 max is 8g. I really would have thought more but double would be better anyway. I still think this is a waist of time. Will give it more thought but I have had this powder for years and am getting tired of seeing it around. Craig

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Ranch 13
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Posted: December 30 2018 at 6:21pm | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

Good lord you must have a death wish for those handguns. Very dangerous
loads you're proposing here.
Might best take a look at Hogdons data and safe a gun, your hand, or possibly
injury to some innocent bystander.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

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Ham Gunner
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Posted: December 30 2018 at 7:50pm | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

Craig,
I think you have the wrong formula for figuring out a safe load for that powder. You certainly do not double the weight of a full case. This powder can NOT be compressed without dangerous pressures.

Before you load anymore of this powder, please read up on what is safe. We do not want to hear about you missing some fingers or worse.

Take care.

Update: I have done a bit of digging about this powder. I have not loaded any myself, but have read a bit about it in the past. This is what I have found just now.

"Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trailboss, pour into scale pan and weigh. This is your maximum load. Pressures will be BELOW the MAXIMUM allowed for this cartridge and perfectly SAFE to use!" end quote.

But, do not increase this max load weight for that particular round as it would then compress the powder. This powder goes absolutely nuts if it is compressed. It is to only be used uncompressed.

They recommend finding the max. weight of the powder for your cartridge/bullet by loading to the bottom of the seated bullet without compression and then you should reduce to 70% and slowly work up to no more than that determined max weight to find the most accurate load.

Again, do not load more than the determined max weight as it will compress the powder. All bets are off if you compress this stuff.

Edited by Ham Gunner on December 30 2018 at 8:19pm


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Ranch 13
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Posted: December 30 2018 at 8:11pm | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

It might also do a service to read the IMR trail boss load info.
https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trail-boss- reduced-loads-
r_p.pdf

What it says is you find how much powder goes to the base of the bullet in a
rifle case and then REDUCE that charge weight by 70 percent

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Ham Gunner
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Posted: December 30 2018 at 8:22pm | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

Yes, Like Ranch posted. 70% is likely a good place to be. A heavier charge can certainly get tricky. This stuff is not progressive like other powders. It's pressure goes up like a rocket when compressed.

Edited spelling

Edited by Ham Gunner on December 31 2018 at 10:35am


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turbo1889
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Posted: December 30 2018 at 10:13pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Trail Boss powder works great for me. But
I mainly use it for reduced loads in mid
to large caliber straight walled or
slightly tapered cartridges. A few
cartridges it actually will give full
power loads with (example: 45-Colt
original pressure spec.)

45/70, 10mm, 44-spl&mag, all the 45-cal
pitol/revolver cartridges, etc . . .

Using it in 223 never crossed my mind.
22-Hornet for making 22-lr level loads
well that's where I might consider using
Trail Boss.

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What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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Desert Eagle41
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Posted: December 31 2018 at 5:26am | IP Logged Quote Desert Eagle41

Well all I can say is I didn't get into reloading to produce the weakest loads I could. I like loads under max by a few tenths but this stuff is crazy weak. Lets make it official I am giving up!!!!!!! Craig

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Ranch 13
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Posted: December 31 2018 at 6:16am | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

You apparently don't grasp the concept of the powder, let alone read any
reloading manuals, or factory recommendations.

Trailboss was never intended for maximum velocity, it was designed for low
velocity and recoil , while providing a mostly full case in handgun cartridges to
prevent double charging and dangerous pressures.

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The most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it doesn't go where its supposed to.
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dahlin
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Posted: December 31 2018 at 6:26am | IP Logged Quote dahlin

I would recommend to any one reloading to buy the manuals for the bullet that you are loading its will be a lot cheaper in the end than blowing up a firearm. Randy
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turbo1889
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Posted: December 31 2018 at 6:47am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Okay, here we go. That the original
poster did not understand that the powder
in question was not suitable to his
desired outcome is not a reason to "pile
on".

In addition let's not get into trying to
roast a preceived heretic to the
"reloading book gods". This ain't
religion boys the reloading manuals aren't
the word of the gods. There are mistakes
and bad loads in the reloading manuals and
good loads that are not in the manuals.

I don't disagree that the loading manuals
are a good reference, heck I even pay
money for some of them.

But of charge:

Quote:
You apparently don't grasp the
concept of the powder, let alone read any
reloading manuals, or factory
recommendations. . . .


Only the first of those three is a proven
fact with the third having a proponderance
of evidence in the case of this powder and
this powder only. The second of the third
charge is an unproven accusation along the
lines of an accusation of heresy in
religious circles and causes all kinds of
big fights on reloading forums. Kind of
like liberals in the political spectrum
calling conservatives "racists" like it
was just another name to call someone
without evidence of any actual racism.

I'm just saying back it off a notch guys,
no need for fighting words and pushing
particular buttons that set off huge
fights on reloading forums.

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What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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turbo1889
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Posted: December 31 2018 at 6:58am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

@ Desert Eagle41

If you are not in anyway interested in any
kind of reduced loads in your reloading
efforts and you have a supply of Trail
Boss powder then your best option for your
needs to use the rest of it up is 45-Colt
loads. Trail Boss won't give full power
"Ruger Only" loads but it will give you
full power normal 45-Colt loads. It will
do the same in some other cartridges as
well but they tend to be more obscure like
some of the old healed bullet cartridges
from the early black powder pistol
cartridge days that were the
contemporaries of the 45-Colt or predate
it.

__________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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Ranch 13
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Posted: December 31 2018 at 7:55am | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

yup just sit back and let some one damage a perfectly good gun, hopefully it's
just the gun and not the shooter or some innocent by stander, all because
someone can't/won't read tested and published reloading data, or powder
descriptions...

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The most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it doesn't go where its supposed to.
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Desert Eagle41
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Posted: December 31 2018 at 9:39am | IP Logged Quote Desert Eagle41

OK all listen up. I got this powder when it first came out because it was advertised to work with any cartridge using the fill the case up blah, blah, blah. I didn't use it then and don't really need it now. I have a bout 6 manuals for reference but use the internet as I can get the latest info on any cartridge I am working on. I never heard of "reduced loads" or Cowboy shooting when I bought this stuff. Please understand I have been loading for 45 years and have never had problems getting good data. Hodgden seems to not want to show data for this stuff which I don't understand. The hole purpose of this powder has changed from when I bought it. That's OK as I don't want it for it's now intended use anyway. I think using it on flower beds is a great idea for this crap. Craig

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Ranch 13
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Posted: December 31 2018 at 10:37am | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

The stuff was turned out in 05 to some of us before it was released to the
general public in 06. It was developed for the specific purpose of giving
reduced velocity in handgun cartridges , to mostly fill the case and reduce the
number of double charges that were destroying guns by folks trying for the
mousefart loads typically used by Cowboy Action shooters.
It was also said at the time it could be used for limited purposes for reduced
velocity in some rifle cartridge.
Matter of fact I think the cans say that right on them..

Hogdon's shows a lot of data for Trailboss in handgun cartridges. IMR's web
site tells the exact formula to come up with a rifle load that is not listed on
what they have available.

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The most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it doesn't go where its supposed to.
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