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turbo1889
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Posted: January 09 2019 at 5:06am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Yah, slight exaduration on the "gazillion"
number. But there was a smallish company
that was the only company making AR lowers
out of polymer that were actually any
good. They didn't just copy the normal AR
lower profile they started with a clean
slate and designed the lower to properly
mate up with an upper and take a standard
magazine and any standard trigger pack.
But from there it was all different. It
was a one piece lower, pistol grip, buffer
tube, and stock assembly all in one with
A1 length of pull all one unit with all
the thicknesses of everything re-adjusted
to be correct for polymer rather then
aluminum and everything properly bracing
everything. It was the only poly AR lower
that was a good lower and their poly lower
would take more abuse and made the gun
better, stronger, and more reliable then a
standard AR setup.

A disgruntled employee deliberately
damaged their mold assembly in a manner
which in turn damaged the injection
machine as well. The list of that single
mold and the damage to the injection
machine bankrupted the company even though
they had already made and sold thousands
of units at higher prices then
conventional receivers (it was a "premium
lighter weight while stronger" product).

As it was explained to me, "That mold and
machine was the company. The majority of
the companies assets we're in that mold
and that injection machine. When it was
sabatoged and destroyed, the company was
sabatoged and destroyed."

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What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: January 09 2019 at 7:03am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

There are a lot of after market parts for Glocks, and a majority of them are unnecessary, however better sights and a standard rifling barrel, are high on the list of "must haves"".. there are warnings from the manufacture about using cast bullets in their barrels.

There are pictures of Glocks that have blown up, because of fouled barrels resulting in high pressure failures.

But again this is a case of a lack of common sense. The same thing can happen with any gun if you do not use the right alloy in your bullets and occasionally clean your fire arm.

The majority of failures with Glocks or anything else are a result of negligence. A lot of the failures of Glock pistols are cracked slides, these can be traced back to weak recoil springs. Recoil springs fail over time, the rule of thumb is that they need to be replaced around the 5K mark, and in some instances even sooner.

With all metal guns pushing the $1000.00 price range, the sub $300.00 polymer guns give the shooter on a budget the opportunity to participate.

I have a little polymer frame, CZ75 clone, it has a chrome lined barrel, with standard rifling, fully adjustable metal sights, all of the metal parts are easily replaceable if they should fail, it holds 17+1 and cost less than $250.00. It is a good shooter, seems to do well with almost any alloy..for the price whats not to like.

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RT58
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Posted: January 09 2019 at 9:29am | IP Logged Quote RT58

Turbo, not every small business is run efficiently and even those that are when they start up it can take a long time to really show a good profit. The fact that most of their assets were in the mold and injection machine doesn't mean all their money was going into it. They could have been so far in debt that there was no way they were going to get loans for new equipment. They also could have been sinking into such a large amount of debt the saboteur actually did them a favor.

After Glock finally found a market, which had a lot to do with the media claiming their pistol couldn't be detected on X-ray scanners, other manufacturers jumped on the poly frame bandwagon. Long existing companies, such as S&W jumped in with their Sigma line, for which Glock sued them for patent infringements due to how similar it was to the Glock. S&W had machinery to make a frame out of metal and had the machinists to do the job. They could have copied the basic design of the Glock and made it look more appealing to the consumer. I seem to recall when the poly fad started the pistols were priced a bit higher, some in fact were about as expensive as metal framed guns. Then they started to lower them a little at a time. I'd say that was when they paid off their equipment.

John, the warning I remember seeing from Glock about their barrel was that they do induce fouling from lead bullets and that if you shoot lead make sure you keep the barrel clean. This is the cause of the "Ka-boom" I'm sure everyone has heard about. This occurs because the lead fouling at the front of the chamber prevents the following rounds from seating completely, which would prevent most firearms from firing. But the Glock still will and that is the real problem with them.

As far as the prices of steel vs. poly, that is the fault of the consumers. The manufacturers saw a way to increase profits and manipulated the market in that direction. The consumers bought it. Then they jacked the price of the old steel framed guns up higher and higher, and the consumers kept buying them. It all goes back to supply and demand and we have a consumer base that doesn't know what they want.

A couple years ago my son asked me which 1911 is the best. I told him the cheapest, mil-spec import we could find. He started telling me about all the magazine articles he'd read and I told him when he decides he wants a 1911 I'll build him what he wants and what he needs. You can spend a lot of money on a 1911 and most shooters have no idea what kind of parts they are getting and a lot of the parts they are dressing them up with are totally unnecessary. I just hope we can find good parts at the time.
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Tom W.
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Posted: January 09 2019 at 1:47pm | IP Logged Quote Tom W.

One of the things that drew me to the CZ was because it
had an external hammer and would fire with the magazine
out. The two striker fired pistols I own are both Rugers.
one the LC9s Pro and the other a 22/45. Those suit me. I
carried a Colt GM .45 acp for 30 or more years and really
liked the external hammer and fairly light trigger pull.
The SA pull on the CZ is nice and light, and the handgun
feels good in my hands. I haven't fired it very much at
all, maybe 5 boxes or so of my handloads, but found what
diameter bullet it likes, and it shoots them without a
hitch.
Both of my Ruger pistols have polymer frames, but they are
the only ones I could warm up to.

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: January 10 2019 at 6:31am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

The supply and demand thing is evident, if you look at the MSRP of Ruger Vaqueros and compare it with the cost of the Blackhawk, a real case of less costs more.

I have a series 70 Colt I have carried since I bought it new in 1970. I has a set of high visibility adjustable sights, a 22# Wolf recoil spring and a recoil buffer, other than that it is as it came from Colt.

My little 9E Ruger had a magazine disconnector, "had"..!

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RT58
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Posted: January 10 2019 at 12:40pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

Range guns I usually shoot as they were purchased.

Revolvers I carry usually get an 11# Wolff trigger return spring, if needed, and may get new grips depending on what they have on when purchased.

Autos I carry get an ambidextrous safety if they don't already have one, which I see no reason why any of them don't have it from the factory. It goes back to that profit thing but I'd think even righties would want them too.
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joed
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Posted: January 10 2019 at 4:12pm | IP Logged Quote joed

I have 2 polymer autos, a GLOCK 26 and a S&W Shield in .40 S&W.   
They have their place for CCW.   To me that's all they are. I spend a
little time at the range with them just to keep my skills up.    Other
than this I don't spend time with them.

What I like about them is they are inexpensive and I wouldn't cry if
they were taken away from me.   My S&W and Colt revolvers always
go to range. They are fun to shoot but I no longer carry them.   
Even my Kimber Pro Carry II gets shot at the range but never
carried anymore.

The polymer guns just don't have a soul like the steel guns. Every
once in awhile I like to look over the Colts and S&W revolvers, but
the Shield and GLOCK, just go in a holster and carried.

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turbo1889
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Posted: January 10 2019 at 11:31pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

joed wrote:
I have 2 polymer autos, . . .
What I like about them is they are
inexpensive and I wouldn't cry if
they were taken away from me. . . . The
polymer guns just don't have a soul like
the steel guns. . . but . . . just go in a
holster and carried.


Wow, no offense man I get what your
saying.

But I just read your post, after just
watching the remastered original
Bladerunner and the new sequel back to
back this evening that my woman bought the
special edition double pack and I double
feature watched them with her this evening
(she is more into that kind of dark Sci-Fi
then I am, me watching with her is a
quality time thing for her though.)

Well, you saying the poly guns have no
soul, while at the same time admitting
they are the work horses that you rely on
if the proverbial turd hits the proverbial
fan.

Well, it almost makes me mad and want to
scream, "Synthetic guns have rights too!"

Again, not trying to start a fight or
offered anyone, but to depend on a gun or
class of guns for if/when it hits the fan
and at the same time run them down saying
they don't have a soul like other guns ~
"Wow" is all I can say.

Edited by turbo1889 on January 10 2019 at 11:33pm


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What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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RB in GA
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Posted: January 11 2019 at 6:46am | IP Logged Quote RB in GA

joed wrote:

The polymer guns just don't have a soul like the steel
guns.


Next we will hear that...Colt Series 70 1911 is an
ascension being.
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: January 11 2019 at 7:22am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

There is a chap making copies of Decker's sidearm, and another "smith" who makes one that shoots .44spl.

The generation that has grown up with Glocks and things of that ilk, will look at the all metal guns and wonder how we got by with those clunky things.

And as time passes there will be less and less metal in the guns as the synthetic technology advances.

Hand held energy weapons are right around the corner, which will be the end of cartridge guns.
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Tom W.
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Posted: January 11 2019 at 8:42am | IP Logged Quote Tom W.

I liked my Series 70.....

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RT58
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Posted: January 11 2019 at 8:52am | IP Logged Quote RT58

John Van Gelder wrote:
...The generation that has grown up with Glocks and things of that ilk, will look at the all metal guns and wonder how we got by with those clunky things...


It's funny how many people think movies and television have anything to do with reality. My wife and granddaughter watch "action" movies and it's amazing how little Hollywood knows about firearms, ammunition, shooting ...and pretty much everything else. But I hear people talking about them like they are training films. They're almost as bad as gun magazines.
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Ham Gunner
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Posted: January 11 2019 at 10:39am | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

I have been watching some of the old western movies lately and again was reminded about the cartridges carried in the cartridge belt by Steve McQueen in "Wanted Dead or Alive". The cartridges were for his sawed off lever action "Mares Leg". The sawed off 92 Win. was actually chambered in the fairly short 44-40 cartridge, but the Director or someone decided that larger cartridges needed to be carried in the ammo belt for appearance. I think they were 45-70 rounds.

In one of the shows one of McQueens bullets was removed out of a bad guy by a doctor who declared it to be a bullet fired from a 30-30, which had not even been invented at the time period of the series. The series time period was actually supposed to be even before the 92 win. had come into production.

I remember reading that when the series came out, that the ATF contacted the movie studio and told them that the rifle was an illegal sawed off rifle and had to be registered under the Firearms Act. I suppose either McQueen or the studio itself got it registered. There were three sawed off rifles used in the series. They were not all alike. One had a larger cocking lever and one even had an octagon barrel. In some of the shows, if you looked close enough, you could see that McQueen had switched rifles from scene to scene.

Mares Leg

Edited by Ham Gunner on January 11 2019 at 11:49am


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The_Shadow
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Posted: January 11 2019 at 1:17pm | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

Well one of the things I favor the Glock guns for is the trading of frame weight for extra ammo capacity and being on the cheaper side. Another is the fact that should you have a defensive shooting and you gun is held for evidence for what ever reason, it may not be one of the more expensive or collectible pieces.   

Also having conversion barrels for several Glocks does add to its flexibility from the same platform. Such as the 10mm guns, where 40S&W, 357Sig and 9x25Dillon conversions can all be utilized.   

I still like my real steel guns as well and some are no longer replaceable or replaceable parts to be had.   

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: January 12 2019 at 6:39am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

After carrying the Walker colt around for a while, the 1860 Army was a real joy..

In one of Ruger's ads, they claim that the American .45 weighs less fully loaded than a 1911 does empty..

Been dying to ask this: Shadow..do you really know the evil that lurks in the heart's of men..?
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turbo1889
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Posted: January 12 2019 at 9:09am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

I see I'm not the only lover of old time
radio shows. So nice that so many of them
are available on MP3 online nowdays.

Also, little harder to mess up the
practical gun stuff in the theater of the
mind as opposed to the boob-tube.

As to the old Steve Maquine "Dead or
Alive" to me it always looked like his
belt cartridges and cut down lever gun SBR
was the old 32-40 cartridges longer
tapered small bore compared to 44-40 but
still a BP cartridge that predated the 30-
30 smokeless but still a fast moving small
bore for a BP cartridge.

__________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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RT58
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Posted: January 12 2019 at 9:40am | IP Logged Quote RT58

It's not hard to spot when people repeat advertising hype or clichés created by the experts hired to do advertising, as none of it makes any rational sense. They should've just stuck to adding the word "tactical" to every useless product or idea they wanted to sell.
Advertising is the same as always, people believe what they want to believe and will blindly follow celebrities that lie through their teeth about products they have been paid to endorse.

Before the firearms industry went to hades, you could have a nice steel handgun for showing off and walk down to the end of the counter and find a nice used shooter version of the same thing priced lower than the plastic garbage being pushed now. That should've satisfied anyone worried about their handgun being confiscated after a shooting, although I don't remember ever hearing anyone mention it back then.
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joed
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Posted: January 12 2019 at 4:16pm | IP Logged Quote joed

No offense taken about the polymer guns not having a soul.   But,
let me explain why I just don't feel they have a soul.

I have quite a few older S&W revolvers and Colts in my safe. When
you handle one of them you realize how much hand fitting went into
them.   Every one of them has craftsmen building them and leaving
a piece of themselves in the gun.   And that is a thing of beauty.

By no means would I put the polymer guns down.   Remember, they
are what I carry, I'm betting my life on them.   But no master
craftsman built them like the old S&W and Colt revolvers.    But they
sure work flawlessly.

Edited by joed on January 12 2019 at 4:38pm


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RT58
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Posted: January 12 2019 at 4:35pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

joed, I got your meaning of soul the first time you said it. To many people guns are guns and that's as far as they can see them. But if you spend enough time with enough different guns you can sense something more. It's like telling a horologist that your great grandfathers pocket watch is no different than the $12 imports at Wal-Mart because they all do the same job.
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Posted: January 16 2019 at 5:46am | IP Logged Quote Slick

M700 wrote:
A lot of the folks in my Basic Handgun classes are bringing those little Ruger LC9s pistols.

Each one of those pistols has shot GREAT! They're so doggone easy to conceal as well. Nice choice.

Guy


I have an LC9 and the Kahr CW9 and I can carry the LC9 (along w/the lazer max) easier than the Kahr. Amazingly both guns are as accurate as a full-size 9mm.

*******

As far as Glock go, I'd never been a fan up until I shot the G34. I never liked the grip angle or the lack of forward weight. the G34 solves that (to a degree) with the weight of the longer slide and barrel.

Where I really went nuts, is with the Polymer80 - which is an 80% frame that is completed and then built using Glock guts. I've built 3 of the Polymer80's so far and they've all ran 100% on OEM Glock and MagPul magazines with 450 rounds spread pretty evenly accross all 3 guns.

For anyone interested in building one, it's not something you do to save money, although I spent a year acquiring parts, I only saved $50 off the price of a G34. It's nearly impossible to build for less than the price of a G17 or 19. The main reason you build is because you can put exactly the parts on that you want, instead of adding or swapping parts on a factory gun..

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